MetaChat - Microwave madness, http://metachat.org/index.php?disp=comments en-US http://backend.userland.com/rss 60 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:00:48 +0000 c532737@http://metachat.org Only when I placed my cell phone right on top of the meter and called it from another phone could I get a reading. The needle leapt past 1 milliwatt per square centimeter (about what I had measured on the mountain).... Umm... not exactly a great debunk of the idea that cellphones may be dangerous. I mean, what he's saying is that cellphones may only be dangerous if someone calls you and you put the phone up to your ear? I don't know about you... Only when I placed my cell phone right on top of the meter and called it from another phone could I get a reading. The needle leapt past 1 milliwatt per square centimeter (about what I had measured on the mountain)....

Umm... not exactly a great debunk of the idea that cellphones may be dangerous. I mean, what he's saying is that cellphones may only be dangerous if someone calls you and you put the phone up to your ear? I don't know about you...]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532737 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:08:12 +0000 c532739@http://metachat.org He's addressing the people who claim that this radiation is persistent. The concept of the radiation being, as far as most studies can tell, benign, is a separate idea. http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532739 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:11:53 +0000 c532740@http://metachat.org But his larger point is that the town is experiencing some form of "mass hysteria", no? I find it a bit distasteful to conclude that, since these folks are mistaken about the effects of persistent radiation, their symptoms must be purely psychological. We're really good at making connections between events, even if those connections are erroneous. We can't just dismiss the events outright - we need to give them the tools to make a better connection.
We're really good at making connections between events, even if those connections are erroneous. We can't just dismiss the events outright - we need to give them the tools to make a better connection.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532740 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:44:15 +0000 c532742@http://metachat.org Yes, the mass hysteria aspect is what makes this article interesting, to me. This seems to happen a lot in society and is rarely ever addressed outright. Like when a "mysterious smell" sickens a school/airport/office building, people go to the hospital with various and sundry complaints, and then everybody's fine and no cause is ever found- those are usually mass hysterias. You can find examples of other hysterias that are slower-moving and wider-spread (like that Wang Chung video that was supposed to send kids into epileptic fits, but only in Britain, oddly enough). I don't think it's distasteful to look at sociological and psychological reasons for panics like the one in/around Santa Fe. No one's accusing people of lying; the power of suggestion is a very real and powerful force.
Like when a "mysterious smell" sickens a school/airport/office building, people go to the hospital with various and sundry complaints, and then everybody's fine and no cause is ever found- those are usually mass hysterias. You can find examples of other hysterias that are slower-moving and wider-spread (like that Wang Chung video that was supposed to send kids into epileptic fits, but only in Britain, oddly enough).

I don't think it's distasteful to look at sociological and psychological reasons for panics like the one in/around Santa Fe. No one's accusing people of lying; the power of suggestion is a very real and powerful force.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532742 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:59:18 +0000 c532744@http://metachat.org Like when a "mysterious smell" sickens a school/airport/office building, people go to the hospital with various and sundry complaints, and then everybody's fine and no cause is ever found- those are usually mass hysterias. ...or it turns out to be Legionellosis, which many people attributed to hysteria. The interesting questions are: (1) Are people in Santa Fe getting sick with a similar set of symptoms? (2) If so, why? (3) If not, who is perpetrating the idea that they are? The reporter provides nothing beyond two personal anecdotes that there IS an epidemic (real or hysterical) in Santa Fe. The article links to this measured report in the Santa Fe Reporter. It seems to me that George Johnson has seriously distorted several "facts" that would lead readers to believe that anti-wireless activists are very prevalent in Santa Fe. Lack of money kept Williams away from the hospital. She has no health insurance. To me, this is the real story. Like when a "mysterious smell" sickens a school/airport/office building, people go to the hospital with various and sundry complaints, and then everybody's fine and no cause is ever found- those are usually mass hysterias.

...or it turns out to be Legionellosis, which many people attributed to hysteria.

The interesting questions are:
(1) Are people in Santa Fe getting sick with a similar set of symptoms?
(2) If so, why?
(3) If not, who is perpetrating the idea that they are? The reporter provides nothing beyond two personal anecdotes that there IS an epidemic (real or hysterical) in Santa Fe. The article links to this measured report in the Santa Fe Reporter. It seems to me that George Johnson has seriously distorted several "facts" that would lead readers to believe that anti-wireless activists are very prevalent in Santa Fe.

Lack of money kept Williams away from the hospital. She has no health insurance.

To me, this is the real story.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532744 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:41:29 +0000 c532746@http://metachat.org Lack of health care access in this country is a very important story, but it isn't this story. ...or it turns out to be Legionellosis, which many people attributed to hysteria. No, that's completely different: Legionellosis cases turn up over long periods of time (and have been found to have an actual cause). The "mysterious smell" hysterias usually happen over a course of hours, or a single day, with no lingering ill health effects. The anti-wireless (and now, anti-digital TV) hysteria in Santa Fe has been going on for at least a couple of years (here's a story from last month, and here are a couple of stories from 2008). It looks like this all started when Santa Fe started a city-wide WiFi network, and wasn't originally even about cell phones, and seems to be affecting just a few folks. (Though I think it's hilarious that the main guy behind the anti-wireless crusade there in Santa Fe tried to sue his neighbor over radiation coming from HER cell phone and electronics.) In the 1950s there were people who were convinced that the government was looking back at them through their TV sets. I'm curious now if any of those folks suffered physical symptoms from what was just a hysterical fear of something new and pervasive in their world. this story.

...or it turns out to be Legionellosis, which many people attributed to hysteria.

No, that's completely different: Legionellosis cases turn up over long periods of time (and have been found to have an actual cause). The "mysterious smell" hysterias usually happen over a course of hours, or a single day, with no lingering ill health effects.

The anti-wireless (and now, anti-digital TV) hysteria in Santa Fe has been going on for at least a couple of years (here's a story from last month, and here are a couple of stories from 2008). It looks like this all started when Santa Fe started a city-wide WiFi network, and wasn't originally even about cell phones, and seems to be affecting just a few folks. (Though I think it's hilarious that the main guy behind the anti-wireless crusade there in Santa Fe tried to sue his neighbor over radiation coming from HER cell phone and electronics.)

In the 1950s there were people who were convinced that the government was looking back at them through their TV sets. I'm curious now if any of those folks suffered physical symptoms from what was just a hysterical fear of something new and pervasive in their world. ]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532746 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:56:00 +0000 c532748@http://metachat.org We can't just dismiss the events outright - we need to give them the tools to make a better connection. I think those who claim electromagnetic hypersensitivity have their own set of tools they believe in, namely their symptoms. From BP's last link: Bob Park, a University of Maryland physics professor who has published a book on the subject, says that although such radiation can heat tissue, it lacks the energy to knock loose electrons and alter human DNA or otherwise cause the reported symptoms. We can't just dismiss the events outright - we need to give them the tools to make a better connection.

I think those who claim electromagnetic hypersensitivity have their own set of tools they believe in, namely their symptoms.

From BP's last link: Bob Park, a University of Maryland physics professor who has published a book on the subject, says that although such radiation can heat tissue, it lacks the energy to knock loose electrons and alter human DNA or otherwise cause the reported symptoms.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532748 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:58:02 +0000 c532749@http://metachat.org Coincidentally, here's a current (highly embarrassing) story from right here in Georgia: the state legislature wants to ban "implanting a microchip in a person against their will." Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but here's some of the testimony they heard on the floor of the state house: She spoke of the “right to work without being tortured by co-workers who are activating these microchips by using their cell phones and other electronic devices.” She continued. “Microchips are like little beepers. Just imagine, if you will, having a beeper in your rectum or genital area, the most sensitive area of your body. And your beeper numbers displayed on billboards throughout the city. All done without your permission,” she said. Instead of getting this woman and others like her help, our fearless leaders are going to bravely ban the implementation of microchips into a person's body without their consent. The mind reels. story from right here in Georgia: the state legislature wants to ban "implanting a microchip in a person against their will." Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but here's some of the testimony they heard on the floor of the state house:
She spoke of the “right to work without being tortured by co-workers who are activating these microchips by using their cell phones and other electronic devices.”

She continued. “Microchips are like little beepers. Just imagine, if you will, having a beeper in your rectum or genital area, the most sensitive area of your body. And your beeper numbers displayed on billboards throughout the city. All done without your permission,” she said.

Instead of getting this woman and others like her help, our fearless leaders are going to bravely ban the implementation of microchips into a person's body without their consent. The mind reels.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532749 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:03:32 +0000 c532751@http://metachat.org and seems to be affecting just a few folks This is sort of my point. Is it really a hysteria if it's a few people with legitimate health concerns that, for one reason or another, are choosing to blame those health concerns on the wrong source? In the Salon.com article, there seems to be an incredibly troubling conflation between the few people who report negative health effects and the wider group of anti-wireless folks. All the reports you've linked interview the same relatively small group of people (5 or so) who claim that they are "sensitive". I haven't seen any evidence (beyond George Johnson's assertation) that there's anything beyond a run-of-the-mill case of the crazies. If 5 people show up to the Mt. Shasta City Council meeting and claim that their headaches are caused by Lemuria awakening beneath Mt. Shasta, is that "mass hysteria"? Look, electromagnetic sensitivity (or whev) is clearly bunk. But the Salon article in your original post is a piece of work as well. and seems to be affecting just a few folks

This is sort of my point. Is it really a hysteria if it's a few people with legitimate health concerns that, for one reason or another, are choosing to blame those health concerns on the wrong source? In the Salon.com article, there seems to be an incredibly troubling conflation between the few people who report negative health effects and the wider group of anti-wireless folks. All the reports you've linked interview the same relatively small group of people (5 or so) who claim that they are "sensitive". I haven't seen any evidence (beyond George Johnson's assertation) that there's anything beyond a run-of-the-mill case of the crazies. If 5 people show up to the Mt. Shasta City Council meeting and claim that their headaches are caused by Lemuria awakening beneath Mt. Shasta, is that "mass hysteria"?

Look, electromagnetic sensitivity (or whev) is clearly bunk. But the Salon article in your original post is a piece of work as well.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532751 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:31:07 +0000 c532755@http://metachat.org Still, here's a scientific study on possible effects of prolonged (3 hours) exposure to 884 MHz GSM wireless communication signals on self-reported symptoms, cognitive function, and electroencephalographically (EEG) recorded sleep. here's a scientific study on possible effects of prolonged (3 hours) exposure to 884 MHz GSM wireless communication signals on self-reported symptoms, cognitive function, and electroencephalographically (EEG) recorded sleep. ]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532755 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:15:33 +0000 c532757@http://metachat.org Instead of getting this woman and others like her help, our fearless leaders are going to bravely ban the implementation of microchips into a person's body without their consent. The mind reels. I'm not sure what it is that the legislators hearing this testimony should do, though -- stop the proceedings and call . . . who? And have them do what? Are you saying there are not enough mental health services in Georgia? (If it's anything like my state that's probably true.) I'm not sure I want the legislators deciding when it's time for my treatment, though. :) People who are decidedly a bit odd show up all the time to give testimony, although I can see how this particular bill would bring out more than usual. Instead of getting this woman and others like her help, our fearless leaders are going to bravely ban the implementation of microchips into a person's body without their consent. The mind reels.

I'm not sure what it is that the legislators hearing this testimony should do, though -- stop the proceedings and call . . . who? And have them do what? Are you saying there are not enough mental health services in Georgia? (If it's anything like my state that's probably true.) I'm not sure I want the legislators deciding when it's time for my treatment, though. :)

People who are decidedly a bit odd show up all the time to give testimony, although I can see how this particular bill would bring out more than usual. ]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532757 In response to: Microwave madness, Wed, 21 Apr 2010 22:45:23 +0000 c532763@http://metachat.org Bob Park, a University of Maryland physics professor who has published a book on the subject, says that although such radiation can heat tissue, it lacks the energy to knock loose electrons and alter human DNA or otherwise cause the reported symptoms. Hey, I subscribe to his newsletter! Cool dude. Bob Park, a University of Maryland physics professor who has published a book on the subject, says that although such radiation can heat tissue, it lacks the energy to knock loose electrons and alter human DNA or otherwise cause the reported symptoms.

Hey, I subscribe to his newsletter! Cool dude.]]> http://metachat.org/index.php/2010/04/21/microwave_madness#c532763