You get used to it. I moved to Pennsylvania from New Jersey when I was eighteen and kept freaking out when strangers started talking to me. Now after three decades here I go back to NJ/NY to visit and find people unbelievably short and unfriendly.

Sometimes it is time consuming though, I'm lucky if I can get out of Sam's beer store in half and hour since Sam always wants to tell me long stories about his kids or his last trip to Italy. I still prefer that to retailers who won't even look at you or respond to niceties.

It's not new and I'm not opposed to the random socializing. It's the two faced thing that gets to me. I'd rather people were honest instead of putting up a front, I'm not sure which would be more awkward.

Ah, maybe I misunderstood. Have never encountered much of two-facedness or more likely I'm too socially oblivious to notice it when it happens.

Is there a regional social conduct where you are and how do you feel about it?

One of the reasons I like New England is that the social conduct here suits me (well, outside Boston anyway). People generally leave you alone, but they're friendly when there's a reason to be. The classic "New England reserve" is kind of my default, since I kind of like people to give me space, and I do appreciate not having to pass the time with every little transaction. But I also like a friendly brief greeting at the store, and people getting to know you if you cross paths often enough.

My New Jersey upbringing does show, though, as I'm a little more likely to flip the bird in traffic, or assume people are being rude to me when they really are just lost in thought or whatever.

I don't miss "Ma'am." I got ma'amed so much in Chicago and Indianapolis. It was worse than the south for the Ma'aming.

I don't know that it's such a thing in Pennsylvania. I didn't notice it as much in my time in Ohio, but it was eastern Ohio.
And it's just kind of rankling me extra right now because I'm having to perform a lot of social niceties with people I don't particularly like, who don't particularly like me either. But it's just the way it is and I'm kind of trapped.

Texans are southern in hospitality, with a heaping helping of leave me the hell alone.

When I say Pennsylvania, I mean central and western PA, not Philly which as far as I'm concerned is part of New Jersey culturally.

I hear Madison, Wisconsin has a general Eastern leave you alone type attitude, which makes it sounds more appealing to me.
But I wonder how much of it has to do with how you were raised. Maybe my New York tri-state area upbringing has predisposed me to this, but I think I'm just at odds with my environment.
And feeling very chatty, because it keeps me procrastinating.

not Philly which as far as I'm concerned is part of New Jersey culturally

I cannot wait to use this on my Philadelphia-area cousins who love to make New Jersey jokes at my expense.

Two-faced politeness in a forced environment (work, extended friends and family gatherings) is something I don't feel like I've ever been able to get away from, no matter where I've lived. It is wearing, but it's one of those things I feel like I fall into in the interests of trying to keep things comfortable for other people, regardless of what I and another particular person may think of each other.

I dunno, I think there are a lot of friendly people in New Jersey. But I really only have Cleveland, OH and WIlmington, DE to compare it to.

There are a lot of friendly people in NJ - I always notice that when I visit home - but I think it's more 'outgoing, gregarious' than forced-politeness kind of friendly. They're just a voluble bunch. But due to that I think there is more obvious emotion the surface. Jersey people are more likely to say "hi" to you but also more likely to say "hey" if you cut them in line or something.

I'M COMMENTING HERE

Feel more at home now???

Sometimes I want to just walk through a door without having someone feeling obligated to hold it open for me and me saying thank you all the time. I just wanna walk through the damn door.

Hi, Midwesterner here. That's probably going to color my point of view here, but really? Is is hard to say "thanks" when someone holds a door for you? Because when someone holds a door for you and you just blow past them like they aren't there? You look like an asshole. Same with dropping a door on someone. If it only takes an extra second or two to hold a door for someone, do it. Why? Because it's polite, and that's where you live now. I'm curious about how either of those make someone two-faced.

As for chit chat, it's not nearly as bad as, say, China, where you spend a half an hour talking about nothing before buying tea. People want to spend a few extra minutes saying "Hi" to others. It's how things are. You'll get used to it. Again, I'd love to hear why this is two-faced.

I don't mean to come full-out defensive, but you've triggered all of my "New Yawk Cock-Face" flags. Don't be that person. You're living in a different culture, and if it were a different culture in another country, you'd certainly try to deal with these customs. It's no different where you are now. Like it or not, you're now an ambassador of New York, and everything you do is going to reflect on your friends, family, former co-workers, former neighbors, etc.

Granted, I lived with a bunch of Minnesotans who also drive me nuts. They never tell me when I'm upsetting them or doing something wrong. Instead, they'll email me, even when they're a floor above me.

It's taken me a while to get used to this. That's how they were raised. I just had to shrug it off and deal with it. Would I like them to actually tell me what they want? Sure. But they're doing what they do for their own reasons. I think it's because they think they're being rude, or they suck at even the most basic confrontation, or both.

But it is what it is.

Is is hard to say "thanks" when someone holds a door for you?

I'd say that it IS hard to do if your primary interest and expectation is to be left alone, and to be seen (if noticed at all) as an individual capable of opening the door for herself.

I take the risk of seeming "not nice" when I stand up for the East Coast-y way of just going about your business, but I'll accept the role. Dropping the door on someone immediately behind you is quite definitely rude, as it's a very small thing just to hold it open as you pass through long enough for someone just behind you to catch it. But I'd argue that it's just as rude to do an exaggerated, long-wait, smilingly-expectant door-holding ritual that seems to be done more in expectation of the reward of someone's thanks and notice of you than for the simple convenience and utility of not having the door close right behind you on someone about to enter.

That demanding of notice is what seems rude when you don't come from that kind of cultural context. It makes complete sense when you live in more densely populated, busier, faster-paced environments: you just go about your business, and I'll go about mine, with minimal requests for other people to pay attention to us, unless there's an overriding reason to bother one another.

I don't think this is really a terrible thing at all. In many contexts, what's rude is to insert yourself into another person's life, demand their time and focus, and force a potentially unwanted interaction on a day when they may have to have dozens of such interactions.

Culture is indeed what it is. It's nice if people figure out the local customs, sure, but in this age of homegenization, I'm actually really glad that New York feels different from Kansas City feels different from Vancouver. It all should feel different; we have different local cultures, and that's a really good thing that keeps us unique despite the sameness of our consumer culture. We can be forgiving of one another regardless of whether we follow local norms.

as it's a very small thing just to hold it open as you pass through long enough for someone just behind you to catch it.

That's what I'm talking about. The other thing is just silly.

In many contexts, what's rude is to insert yourself into another person's life, demand their time and focus, and force a potentially unwanted interaction on a day when they may have to have dozens of such interactions.

I think the disconnect here is that something like making small talk with someone while doing whatever isn't looked at as this in the Midwest. When you're making small talk, you're not trying to pry vital information out of their lives, or even force your way in to the other person's life. It's just another part of being in that culture. It's essentially a way of saying "I'm not mad at you" or "we are okay in terms of our basic functional relationship."

We can be forgiving of one another regardless of whether we follow local norms.

Sure, but one should make at least cursory efforts to understand and speak the local cultural language. Otherwise, you're just that tourist shouting at the guy at the counter for asking them how they were doing. And that's just weird.

It occurred to me after I got done typing that very long post a few comments above: ethylene is just suffering from the culture shock. After she gets done hating everyone, she'll be happy as a clam.

Something I was wondering, though: If ma'am isn't acceptable, which honorific should people call you by? Let me anticipate that your answer will be "none." And I should hope you've anticipated that I'll respond, "but there has to be an honorific. That's how it works."

Given that, which honorific?

in expectation of the reward of someone's thanks and notice of you

Single men definitely do it for the notice. Much of single men's behavior in public is about getting the notice. We will walk you to a cab for the notice. The viability of the species depends on the notice.

I have heard from several women that they just cringe inside when someone calls them "ma'am." All East Coasters tho.

I've always been partial to "Citizen" but I read too many comic books growing up.

one should make at least cursory efforts to understand and speak the local cultural language

It's just not really possible if you have to travel or move a lot. What happens instead is you get used to being an outsider, and you just deal.

Actually, I don't think ethylene's new to the Midwest, so the shock isn't going away any time soon!

There doesn't have to be an honorific. If you need to get someone's attention, "Excuse me" will do it.

I vote for "citizen." It has a ring of evenhandedness and dignity. And I am not new to the Midwest or the holding of doors and thank yous, but what is with me having to hurry because someone who clearly feels inconvenienced is holding the door for me? Always brushing off my sincere thank you. I can push open a door, what is the point when the person so obviously would rather be walking on with everybody else? And when I hold open a door, I don't expect a thank you, I just want everyone to get through the door in the easiest way possible.
But my issue with what to me seems a very Midwestern issue is people being excessively nice falsely when there is no reason for it and it is not genuine. There is smoothing over awkwardness and then there is what might amount to a personal problem with some people who want to be liked even though they don't like the people they are being nice to. I just have run into this sheiss freundlich thing so often in Indiana that I see it as very Midwestern.

I foresee myself absentmindedly calling out "Excuse me, citizen!" a few times over the next coupla days. (I also like "comrade," but I suspect most people won't respond warmly.)

I do resort to "sir" and "ma'am" when just-plain "excuse me" doesn't get someone's attention. It would be great if we had a gender-free, age-neutral term to holler at each other when necessary. "Excuse me, person!" just won't fly, but it's a shame.

I don't object to being "ma'am" --- I prefer it to "miss," for sure. "Miss" is often preferred for its connotation of youthfulness. But I am not youthful; I am not flattered by the pretense that I am youthful*, but occasionally I am irritated by the widespread assumption that being older is bad.

*See also: the infuriating smirking pretense of carding me at the liquor store. COME ON.

(Actually, I don't much care what honorific you use to get my attention unless it's "lady," as in "Hey, lady!" I don't flinch and scold when someone calls me "miss"; I probably don't even notice it most of the time. I only notice it when it's bundled in with other pretenses of youthful address.)

There was a story on NPR about women that were offended when they were called ma'am. It doesn't bother me. Maybe because I'm 38 with two kids in tow. Or, maybe I don't get called ma'am too often. Who knows. I'm not offended by much these days and it's kind of liberating.

I do get what you're saying about the door. It is awkward when someone holds the door open and I'm several feet, more like yards, away. I feel compelled to run to the door so they're not standing there forever.

Ma'am doesn't offend me, it just always strikes me as odd, kind of quaint. I usually comment on someone getting ma'amed because it always stands out to me.