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03 March 2009

Timberrrrrrr! I have an old and large Manitoba maple tree in my backyard that is very close to my back fence and that is leaning over my garden shed and my neighbour’s garage at a 45 degree angle. I want that tree taken down before I put the garden in this spring, so I need start the process. Last night I began to research ways and means. This is when the fun began.[More:]

Trees above a certain size are protected in Toronto. The maple tree in the backyard is above that size, and so I need a permit to cut it down. You can get an exemption to having to apply for a permit if the tree is dead, or structurally compromised. I thought, well, the tree is leaning over at a 45 degree angle, which surely qualifies as structurally compromised. To get an exemption I need to send the relevant city office an arborist report and photo of the tree. So I called an arborist this morning to arrange for an assessment. He promptly told me that since my tree is sound and healthy I have no chance of getting an exemption and must get a $350 permit and will probably also have to plant two or three trees in the tree’s place. I protested that my neighbour on the left has complained to me that the tree is causing issues with his garage and that it’s also so close to the property line that the roots are probably causing problems with the foundations of the house behind mine. There’s no room for two or three new trees! I was thinking about putting in one dwarf fruit tree, but that’s all. And what if the tree fell on my neighbour’s garage? The arborist said none of that was considered grounds for an exemption. And he blithely assured me that as long as my tree was healthy if it fell on my neighbour’s garage I wouldn’t be considered liable. He suggested that I ask my neighbour if he wanted to pay for the permit, the tree removal, and the new trees.

Arghhh. But the arborist is coming out to my place today to look at the tree and will leave a report in my mailbox. He said we could prune the tree back and that there are “a few other options”.

What a pain in the @ss. Certainly I can respect that city planners want to preserve Toronto’s tree canopy, but this is ridiculous. It’s a shameless cash grab and the rules are unreasonable. That tree never should have been allowed to grow to that size in that place and at that angle in the first place, and now I have to pay the city for the right to take it down. I went to a friend and co-worker of mine, who sits next to me, to vent a little after getting off the phone. She was laughing because she’d overheard me on the phone and, being a Toronto homeowner herself, had figured out what the issue when she caught the words “tree” and “45 degree angle” and “fascism”.
This isn't the first time I have heard your story, Orange Swan, and I doubt this will be the last. Landowners, trees, neighbors and city regs are not a healthy mix.

If it falls on your neighbor's garage, your respective insurance companies will probably sue each other, but this is just standard procedure for them. You probably will not hear much more about the issue until it is resolved between them.

Do keep whatever documents the arborist leaves for you.
posted by Ardiril 03 March | 11:10
What I might do is just have the tree cut back severely so it's no longer imapacting my neighbour's garage, and just wait until it's dying before having it removed completely. Seems like that'll be the cheapest option for me and will also be fair to my neighbour.

But I'll wait and see what the arborist recommends.

posted by Orange Swan 03 March | 11:24
Please note that on the page I linked to there's also a "snitch line" so Torontonians can report suspected illegal tree removals.
posted by Orange Swan 03 March | 11:31
Oh, tree regulations are the best. (My dad is currently going through all that sort of hooha with the pond that the community we live in is named after. A bunch of trees grew in the dam that is what allowed the pond to be created and apparently they weren't supposed to be there and the dam started to seep and it was just a huge mess.)

Good luck with your bureaucracy!
posted by sperose 03 March | 12:28
We have the same problem here. Recently, there wa a story in the local paper about someone who tried to get permission to cut down a large gum tree, but was repeatedly denied. Four months later, it blew down in a storm, destroying his neighbour's house. We see stories like this all the time. I sympathise with the concept of stopping people from cutting down trees, but there has to be some sanity mixed in with the bureaucrazy.
posted by dg 03 March | 15:56
Yes, the city has all kinds of money making schemes 'taxes'... it's up to you to get informed and then armed with a lawyer. Suing a city for damages is a big incentive for the City to remove said danger at their cost... oh yes and plant those new trees.


So the arborist has deemed the tree to be not destabilized or structurally compromised....
In writing, I assume, in those exact words?


The arborist said none of that was considered grounds for an exemption. And he blithely assured me that as long as my tree was healthy if it fell on my neighbour’s garage I wouldn’t be considered liable.

I wouldn't trust the word of the arborist regarding litigation. They aren't lawyers, period. Beware!
Can you get them to put that in writing? heh-heh.
Didn't think so. Their 'advice' is worth zero.

I protested that my neighbour on the left has complained to me that the tree is causing issues with his garage and that it’s also so close to the property line that the roots are probably causing problems with the foundations of the house behind mine.

Do you have the neighbour's complaint in writing? Can you get them to write you a letter of 'concern' regarding your tree?

Has any excavating occurred lately in or around the tree? Because if the roots are damaged, the tree is starting to die...
Any City work been done lately? Drain, electrical...notice any backhoes in the last few years?

I would get a good lawyer to send a letter to the City, asking them to remove this tree and plant new trees, because of impending danger and damage to properties, otherwise you will sue them for $$$$$$ [a large sum] if ANYTHING untoward befalls the tree should they not act upon your concern.
This is cheaper than paying for nonsense the City deems your responsibility.... then kick back and lounge in its shade [till it drops].

The Financial Post Business, July/August 2008 in their 'Business' magazine insert had a list of "The Best Lawyers in Canada", 2007-2008 compiled by peer reviewed surveys by a team of editor's, led by Pulitzer Prize-winning lawyers Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith ranking lawyers in 51 categories.
There's a category titled "Administrative and Public Law". [I have a copy, couldn't find it online]

Upper Canada Society Lawyer referral service offers $6.00 chat with lawyer for 1/2 hour [cost added to your phone number]. Ask for a referral specializing in city by-laws/suing city etc... get the scoop before getting a Good, Expensive lawyer to write that letter...

Can you write to any Councillors with your concerns? Let them know you intend to sue the City if any damage occurs from this tree falling - the arborist needs to be blamed put to task of their investigation....

Aside from getting rid of the whole tree, trim the hell outta some branches shading your lawn/new garden.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one in any movie...Good Luck.
posted by alicesshoe 03 March | 18:09
My current plan is to have the tree pruned as severely as possible, and then keep it small by cutting it back myself once a year or so until the end of its natural life span. This should prevent any structural damage, will be cheaper than taking it down right now, and I won't have to replace it when it ultimately dies.
posted by Orange Swan 04 March | 15:09
One Of My Oldest Friends Just Got A Rave Review From The Little Man! || Mmmm....ravioli...., or, too much time on my hands?

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