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03 April 2008

Dear MeCha philosophy types, plz help fix my st00pid, thx! →[More:]

Question: Solipsist & Narcissist - these are NOT synonyms or versions of the same psychological state, amirite?

I mean, I is DUM(b) and uneddicated, but even I have a vague notion they're different states of mind. My guess is that a solipsist would be a fairly antisocial / cynical "there is only the self" crazed loner kinda type, and a narcissist would actively seek to surround themselves with admirers / adulation (er, 'camwhores', anyone?).

I got in a real debate about this last night (playing Dvorak with some friends, god only knows how it came up, yes there was beer involved) and now I would totally appreciate someone way more articulate than me to explain or define them.

oh, and Wikipedia only managed to confuse me worse, well that plus despite the part where I am all about the nekkid statue here, it is pretty NSFW.

there's cash and dubious acts riding on the answer, no pressure btw

post by: lonefrontranger at: 15:13 | 14 comments

For me, the distinction is that a solipcist is kind of self-centered, whereas a narcissist thinks everything is about her.

posted by mudpuppie 03 April | 15:14

Solipsism: "I'm pretty sure I'm the only person in the word. Everything else could be a figment of my imagination."

Narcissism: "I'm pretty sure that I'm the most interesting person in the world. Everything else is a distraction from the fascinating uniqueness, beauty, importance of myself."

posted by Miko 03 April | 15:16

In the vernacular, they both kinda mean 'self-centered.' In academic discussion or something, they're quite different.

posted by box 03 April | 15:19

They aren't psychological terms. Solipsism is philosophical and boils down to the idea that all one can really know to exist one's own mind, and everything else is to some extent an assumption, hence skepticism.
Narcissism is used as slang for self absorption, but it is about seeing things in relation to oneself.

posted by ethylene 03 April | 15:42

yea box, I think that's likely what started the whole argument in the first place. mudpuppie, your explanation is both more succinct and makes more sense than mine.

Miko, that explanation rules!! I guessed I was on the right track. The young man arguing the other position was adamant they were direct synonyms, tho.

Winner claims a forfeit, so I think I'll cite this thread. Good to know that old age and ~~treachery~~ experience trumps youthful enthusiasm and a spendy liberal arts degree.

the loser owes me and the mister a drink each. that, plus he is gonna look absolutely fabulous riding around in a negligee' on the Denver Cruise

This thread can now be about... POODLE SKIRTS!

posted by lonefrontranger 03 April | 15:42

eth, thanks for the distinction re: philosophy vs. psychology, and a good summary of the distinctions as well. Having never studied either, I tend to be a little free with the terms, and know better than that.

I will get you pics of a cute boy in a negligee as penance, k?

posted by lonefrontranger 03 April | 15:47

Yep, ethylene has your best answer.

posted by middleclasstool 03 April | 16:02

They're both about perception, but how much does altering perception alter reality?

posted by ethylene 03 April | 16:19

that's a good point about philosophy vs. psychology. But still, sometimes people get faulted for having a "solipsistic point of view" - so I'd say that even if it's not a personality disorder, the way narcissism is, the term "solipsism" can apply to a person's behavior.

You're right, lfr, that they're definitely not direct synonyms!

posted by Miko 03 April | 16:33

Whoops - forgot to say that Narcissism does carry meaning as a psychological term as well as in common parlance, whereas solipsism carries meaning mostly in philosophy.

posted by Miko 03 April | 16:50

Mmmmm..... solopapias....

posted by Doohickie 03 April | 17:46

D'oh! This makes me remember that I used "solipsistically" in an essay, just as a placeholder that was almost what I meant, until I could refine my choice a bit...

Aaaaaand then turned in my essay. Whoopsie.

Sweet hurtling Zeus, Doohickie, now I'm all hungry!

(Wait, what, this thread isn't about me?)

(Get it?)

posted by Elsa 03 April | 17:55

But still, sometimes people get faulted for having a "solipsistic point of view" - so I'd say that even if it's not a personality disorder, the way narcissism is, the term "solipsism" can apply to a person's behavior.

Yeah, the important point here being the distinction between the common use of the term (sort of like "narcissism turned up to eleven") and the "proper" philosophical sense of "I am the only existing being/only existing being with a mind." See also "begging the question," a debate that I am embarrassed to admit took me a few years to let go.

As someone who studied philosophy and battles a prescriptivist streak, I favor the latter and discourage the former, but the former's in wide enough use (critics seem to LURVE that word, sometimes) that it's also considered perfectly valid.

posted by middleclasstool 03 April | 20:37

To say someone or something is solipsistic, i take to mean from a single or particular point of view.

posted by ethylene 03 April | 20:41

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