Beacause that's what most kids like. Grownups as well. Hell, I like that stuff, too. No pleasure is worth forgoing for an extra few years in the old folks home.

I think what you're seeing here is Lowest Common Denominator Dining. This stuff is widely available and widely consumed, and most people (kids included) will find it inoffensive, if not exactly tempting.

It's the same at my university. At club meetings and deartment events, the committees always provide platters of cold cuts, cheap cheeses, pasty white bread, and chips. Sometimes I'll bring a mezze platter or fruit tray or homemade cookies, and the students fall upon them with moans of delight, but in the planning stages, people staunchly resist changing the menu.

(Mind you, I'm not turning my nose up at chips. When the mood strikes me, I snarfle down a bag of crispy chips with the best of 'em. But it is a shame to teach children that processed pap is their intended diet.)

I was just thinking the phrase 'lowest common denominator.' I wonder, though, if the combination of vegetarianism and religious dietary restrictions is gradually changing the lcd.

Interesting, box. When I'm providing potluck food, especially where there will be children, I always think of hummus, veggies, and pita first. Most children I know are accustomed to hummus, vegans and vegetarians can eat it happily, it's inexpensive and easy and travels well, and (NOT SELFISHIST!) I enjoy it.

Hummus and pita are the new PB&J.

I also agree with the lowest common denominator thing. Anytime I bring a platter of honeydew wrapped in prosciutto to a gathering, it's hardly touched. Everyone is scarfing on chips and dip and hot wings.

I think adults project their tastes onto their kids. A lot of adults like junkfood and assume kids are picky, so they serve them processed junk.

I can't tell you how many times people have expressed their surprise that my kids eat lettuce and tomatoes on their sandwiches. You'd think they were eating bean curd and seaweed the way people carry on. I was raised on real, unprocessed food, save the occasional Kraft dinner and Spam when times were tight, and so are my kids. They don't eat Bagel Bites, chicken nuggets, or those Goldfish crackers everyone carries around.

I eat lunch with my Kindergartner sometimes, and it's sad to see what are in children's lunchboxes. Pringles, fruit roll-ups, Cheetos, Kit-Kat, Caprisun, and that's all in one box. No sandwich, no apple, just crap. It's sad. Most kids eat this way at my kid's school.

I notice a lot of kids live on PB and J, pizza, mac and cheese, and chicken. I never prepared a special dinner for my kids. They eat what we eat, and always have. I was determined not to raise picky kids. Child of Mine, Feeding with Love and Good Sense, by Ellyn Satter is a great book. I pretty much lived it with both of my kids. I'm one of those freaks who never fed their kids jarred food. I made all of my own.

Don't get me wrong, they eat the occasional hamburger form Burger King, but for the most part they consume a pretty healthy diet.

First of all, no matter how healthy you feed your kids when they're out with their friends they're gonna eat junk food, because it tastes good. Not to mention, a party is not the place for health food, the whole point of a party is to indulge. Also, we ate plenty of 'unhealthy' food in my house growing up and I turned out fine. Baloney sandwiches are not uranium, people.

giovanni, not everyone has your metabolism and your almost superhuman resistance to chemicals -- HFCS and other processed food has turning America's -- and, thankfully on a lesser degree, as of now, the rest of the industrialised world's -- children into fat, unhealthy, soon-to-be-diabetic little fucks. it's a bad idea.

When I was a kid, my mother would take me to Burger King before soccer practice. It was only recently that I realized how odd that seems to me.

On the other hand, I always tried new foods as a kid and picked up a lot of interesting eating habits that way. Hell, I started drinking coffee when I was about 8. Always enjoyed seafood, and most vegetables were fine with me.

Nowadays, I love to cook, but when I'm cooking for anyone other than myself I feel terribly hobbled by the restrictive tastes of my friends and coworkers. In fact, I have a coworker who admits to eating out for basically every meal of his child life, which has led to him being a very picky eater.

You're right jonmc. Parties are a time to indulge, and kids will eat what they like. On my walks to school I would go into a Jiffy Mart and buy all kinds of junk because it was forbidden at home. Everything in moderation is my philosophy. I don't want my kids to feel like they can't have an Oreo if they want one.

A lot of people feed their kids junk on a daily basis. I'm not snobby about food, and I'm not the type to forbid anything, but a lot of kids have too much junk food in their lives.

Hey, I'm not attacking baloney or people who enjoy it. Scarf it down, man! See above my disclaimer re: potato chips.)

But I am asserting that children trained to expect baloney sandwiches or chips or hot dogs to be supplied as primary foods (what some nutritional anthropologists call "child-only foods") will face challenges later in life when they want to develop healthy eating habits, or when they want to become more adventurous diners.

And I don't think we were talking about parties, necessarily: scarabic specified Bring Your Children To Work day, and I'm talking about department meetings.

When I went to my nephew's birthday party last January, his father had made a special run to Hooter's for hot wings, and he and his brother were going on and on about how TERRIFIC Hooter's hot wings are, and so even though I'm vegetarian, I used to love buffalo wings when I wasn't vegetarian, so I figured I should try these if they were that good. And so I did. And they were LAME. Meek and mild and dreadful. No one else seemed to think so, however.

Avoiding junkfood is like avoiding booze and cigarettes and drugs and all the other demonized substances, it's a way to avoid a simple truth: no matter what you do, you are going to die. So I say enjoy yourself while you're here. Plus the paternalistic sanctimony of the health food cult drives me insane. Listen Captain Herbalife, we know it's bad for us, we just don't care.

When I was a kid, my mother would take me to Burger King before soccer practice. It was only recently that I realized how odd that seems to me.

Before fights Roberto Duran would eat two steaks, swallowing the juice and spitting out the meat, to get the taste of blood in him. Maybe your mom wanted you to be a badass out there.

his father had made a special run to Hooter's for hot wings

yeah, and he also bought Playboy for the interesting interviews with important writers and artists

matteo: I'm actually mystified that anyone would go to Hooters to look at boobies either. I didn't visit one until I lived in Miami and the waitress had more clothing on than most of the women on the street. and yeah, the wings kind of sucked.

Jonmc, I don't see anyone here trying to persuade you to change your eating habits. People are lamenting the habit of training kids to batten themselves on fatty-salty processed foods before they're old enough to understand the possible health risks of such a diet.

Um, just as we do with cigarettes and alcohol, since you bring it. Yup.

I'm not attacking you or your eating habits --- shine on, you crazy diamond --- just trying to get back to scarabic's point, which was about kids.

Exactly, Elsa. Adults should go nuts with the junk food if it makes them happy. They have the choice, and are in charge of their lives. But kids don't usually get to choose what they eat, and if they are all fattened up and primed for obesity and type 2 diabetes, you're not really giving them much of a life choice after all.

and my point is that a couple of hot dogs and some soda on kid's day at the office isn't really that big of a deal and I think we all know that, so waht does all the handwringing amount to?

his father had made a special run to Hooter's for hot wings

yeah, and he also bought Playboy for the interesting interviews with important writers and artists

Well, not that day. Besides, I don't think he reads much. He's too busy putting out fires.

Jon,
You know you are the mirror image of the all bulghur healthfood freak, right?

Matteo's right bro, most people can't eat the way you do and feel good, you are talking about doing things that feel good, do you see the disconnect?

perhaps, but that's not even my central point, Wino. My central point is that this whole thread smacks of the 'Won't somebody please think of the children??' that we all will usually mercilessly mock. And I find this ironic and amusing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that people mock the 'won't somebody think of the children' thing when someone's trying to use it to justify restricting adult choices. That's not what we're talking about here.

Won't someone please think of the chiiiiiiiiiildren strikes me as funny when it's used to generate undue worry over something that arguably doesn't affect children at all, like a neighborhood sex-toy shop (about which I most recently heard it invoked, to unintended hilarious effect).

But we're talking about the diets, not necessarily party food as you keep stating, but staple foods, of Actual Children.

Will you grant me that there's a difference?

And by "difference" I mean simply : the sex-toy shop has arguably no effect on The Children.

The high-fat, high-salt diet, well, it's harder to make that claim.

The headline on this post WHY DO WE FEED OUR CHILDREN THE WORST FOOD IN THE WORLD? to describe cold cuts struck me exactly the same way it struck jon. And food provided by a business when there is an unnatural influx of small people is not a kid's diet; it's office food.

Thinking of the children in terms of trying to give them healthy food is different than thinking of the children in terms of keeping them away from make believe pedo-werewolves and the like. I think kids can have some cold cuts at the office, btw. I think those lunchables things should be banned though, they smell like an autopsy.

My ex-husband lived on junk. He's one of nature's whippets, he can eat anything and not gain an ounce. Blood pressure, heart rate, blood sugar, everything normal as hell. He owns a pair of pants (Levi Sta-prest - he was a mod) his mother bought him when he left school at 15 in 1965. 28" waist. They still fit him.

jon, you're really lucky to have such a metabolism too, but most people don't get a free health pass if they eat junk. The majority of people eating a diet of heavily processed foods and little or no fresh vegetables or fruit will have health problems as a result.

If I could eat what I wanted without the consequences, then I would. I love Indian food, ice cream, chips, burgers, but if I was to eat that stuff all the time, I'd be 300lbs within a year.

I agree with jon that bring your kids to work day is a poor example. When you're organizing a one-off event for a bunch of kids that only have their parents' workplace in common, serving the lowest common denominator is a requirement. If scarabic's workplace is like mine, setting up the lunch/program is the task of an office volunteer with limited resources and a full-time regular job to do.

But I don't agree with
this whole thread smacks of the 'Won't somebody please think of the children??'

Creating better eating habits for our kids is something our society needs to address. If a parent feeds their kids junk, well that's their choice. But institutions such as school cafeterias need to do a lot better, for reasons of health not morality. (Like everybody else said, on preview.)

I think we're seeing an interesting dichotomy building here, between those who believe the office chose to provide party food, and that the ensuing discussion is about party food, and those who thought the office food reflected daily diet for many children, and who thought the ensuing thread was about children's daily diets.

Stepping back, I can't see any rational reason to think one over the other, which suggests to me that we're choosing to see them based on our pre-existing dietary hobbyhorses. If someone else thinks otherwise, I'd be fascinated to hear it.

Hmmm.

Thinking of the children in terms of trying to give them healthy food is different than thinking of the children in terms of keeping them away from make believe pedo-werewolves and the like.

Wino, is it really? If you accept the ultimate fact that life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease, I don't really think so. We (correctly) hate the fundies for their finger-wagging, judgementalness, sanctimony and endless rules, rules, rules and what do we turn around and do? The same thing but over different stuff, and we get every bit as sanctimonious and prissy about it. The only ultimate rule is don't hurt anybody if you can help it, other than that do what pleases you and let others do the same without judgement.

jon, you're really lucky to have such a metabolism too, but most people don't get a free health pass if they eat junk.

Consequences or the lack thereof are not really the point. My metabolism aside, I'm sure that the 2 pack of cigarettes and six-pack of tallboys a day will probably have health consequences down the line and I consume them anyway, because it makes me happy to. And that's ultimately what matters when it comes to what you consume.

Wait wait wait. When did cold cuts become considered unhealthy? I thought you were going to start listing twinkies and such. Potato chips and soda I can see, yes. But cold cuts? Hot dogs? Those also seem to be typical "cook out" type foods, something I'd associate with group activities and family.

I apparently need to recalibrate my healthometer.

I am really lucky that my kid is such a healthy and adventurous eater. She's such a veggie freak that she actually dressed as a tomato for Halloween a couple of years ago. (A dozen Disney princesses and my little tomato. Rock on, kiddo!)

But if my husband's busy secretary decides to just get a deli tray and a few cases of soda instead of wracking her brain trying to find healthy kid-friendly food for Take Your Kid to Work Day, I wouldn't give it asecond thought.

I've read through the thread and see that I agree pretty much with everyone.

Anytime I bring a platter of honeydew wrapped in prosciutto to a gathering, it's hardly touched. Everyone is scarfing on chips and dip and hot wings.

That sentence made the baby jesus cry. That is just sinful. I would KILL for honeydew wrapped in prosciutto.

I also seem to equate cold cuts and the like with "lunch." That seems like a fairly typical lunch for me, even here at college. Dinner? Probably not so much.

My metabolism aside, I'm sure that the 2 pack of cigarettes and six-pack of tallboys a day will probably have health consequences down the line and I consume them anyway, because it makes me happy to. And that's ultimately what matters when it comes to what you consume.

Yes, it is a choice we as adults are able to make. I know that for me, weighing 300lbs would make me very unhappy indeed, so I choose to not eat (or at least not often) the foods that I know make me gain weight. Children brought up on nothing but junk food don't have a choice. My mother fed my sister and me fried eggs on toast, beans on toast, fish fingers on toast and the occaisonal tin of oxtail soup. Had it not been for school lunches (which were healthy in the 60s) I wouldn't have known what a vegetable was.

The same thing but over different stuff, and we get every bit as sanctimonious [as fundies] and prissy about it.

There's no threat of eternal damnation here. And the individual choice angle you're working here is overtaken by the fact we are talking about children. We make the choice for them because they generally can't feed themsleves. The choices we make influences their eating habits throughout their life. We have a responsibility as the grownups.

The only ultimate rule is don't hurt anybody if you can help it, other than that do what pleases you and let others do the same without judgement.

Yes. I literally believe this as my religion. Still.

There's no threat of eternal damnation here.

C'mon, dano, are you going to tell me that secular 'enlightened' adults aren't often as prissy and sanctimonious about their consumption habits (and a million other things) as any fundie?

When the world is black and white to you everything starts looking like a double stuffed Oreo.

Oooo oreos! ::remembers I have some in my kitchen::

Oreos are awesome with scotch and cigarettes. Mmmm. Who am I kidding? I think everything is made awesome by scotch and cigarettes. Hell, this craptastic horror of a week would be made awesome by the addition of scotch and cigarettes.

The Dulce De Leche Oreose are the best. I just ate a lunch consisting ove 2 White Castles and some cream cheese jalapeno poppers. After I finish this cigarrette, I'm gonna eat some strawberry swirl cheesecake. My body must have a cream deficiencey.

C'mon, dano, are you going to tell me ...

Yes, "it cracks my heart to see kids scarfing processed shitz" is far less prissy and sanctimonious than "it cracks my heart to see those homos sodomizing one another and I hope they burn in Hell".

But we're going in circles, so gimme some of them oreos, it's the first-weekly-anniversary of 4/20 and I have the munchies. No, a handful, dammit.

Laphroaig and Oreos on the veranda darlings.

I guess what I see here is no one offers the kids a CHOICE of something healthy. We adults hog the good stuff and feed the little ones crab because it is cheaper and they will eat it. Meanwhile their little bodies are GROWING and they need nutrients way more than we do.

Jonmc, we won't be prying that tallboy or those porkskins away from your hand anytime soon, but YOU aren't in the process of building strong bones and healthy teeth, now, are ya?

Can I add a peeve here? Other People Who Give Your Kid Crap to eat without asking me (mom!). If I find that our well meaning but sadly crap-eating neighbours have given Perle chocolate, cookies, or sugar coated doughnuts again I'll scream. They know to do it whed Dad is out there keeping an eye because he has a sweet tooth and just can't seem to say "NO". Then she bounces on the walls for hours on end and refuses her veggies. Great. Thanks ever-so-much.

My brother and I weren't fed anything different from the grown-ups at family parties. Chupahija refused to have Hostess (she called them Dinkies and Twongs) or Wonder Bread in the house, but brought in other junk food...sugary cereal, chocolate chips, processed american cheese. I was always told I was fat, but that wasn't actually the case until the summer after my grandmother died.

They've just come out with strawberry Oreos.

I guess what I see here is no one offers the kids a CHOICE of something healthy. We adults hog the good stuff and feed the little ones crab

Hey! Gimmee some of that crab, you greedy little pigs!

;)

I've thanked my parents often for their food wisdom in raising us. The things I'm most grateful for are that colas and other soft drinks weren't considered an ordinary beverage to have with meals, so I never got the habit of drinking them all the time; dessert was a special treat to be prepared and enjoyed occasionally - we never had a house full of sweets to eat whenever we felt like it; never a meal without fresh vegetables (in fact, most of it was from our own garden); lots of variety in foods, including quite a lot of "exotic" things, and we were naturally expected to try everything. We never had weird control issues about food, on either side, and cooking and eating was a friendly, fun thing. I can't ever remember being punished over food, and if we just really didn't like a particular thing (liver, ew), we didn't have to eat it. We had fast food mostly only on road trips... and even then, not lots of it. One of the great things about travelling was the big stack of different sandwiches my mom would make to bring along.

Times were different then, though, and it takes a huge amount of effort for parents to be that careful now, with both parents working, and all the extra-curricular stuff they need to ferry their kids around to, and with fast food so ubiquitous and all their friends eating it, wow - tough to deal with. As often as we order pizza (though we try to keep it to once or twice a month) because we just don't feel like cooking - just for the two of us! - I can imagine the stress of trying to feed your kids as healthy as you can manage every day while trying to avoid the processed/fast food pitfalls.

no matter what you do, you are going to die

Sure, jon. But that certainty does not necessarily mean you have to ignore all concept of healthy living entirely. You pre-assume that people who eat healthier than baloney and chips A) don't enjoy it B) do so to lengthen life. I don't agree with either. I wouldn't eat boiled hot dogs and potato chips for my lunch because it would hit my stomach like a bomb and I'd feel sluggish and cranky afterward. Just because I'm going to die someday doesn't mean I need to be undernourished but overweight every day I'm alive, all the while supporting companies whose environmental and human practices I abhor. Do you want to dismiss environmental and cruelty concerns out of hand, too? I mean, the universe is going to collapse someday, so who cares, right? I never knew you were such a nihilist :)

Here's the real thing, jon. We eat as a group at the office all the time. My company is big on food. They bring in Indian feasts, Mexican spreads, bagels and fresh fruit and all kinds of good stuff all the time. Why, when it's kids day, is the food suddenly WORSE THAN ANYTHING WE'D EAT OURSELVES? Think "kids food" and you get images of lucky charms, fructose "juice drinks," candy galore, fast food "happy meals," and all kinds of processed shit: poptarts, oscar meyer weiners, kraft 'slices' that are mostly wax. Ew. I like to take life by the balls, smoke a good cigarette and drink a good beer, but none of that crap falls into the "living with gusto" category for me.

I applaud your choice to live with gusto and not worry about tomorrow, but you're not going to convince me that diet has no impact on the here and now, the way I feel today. You say that all a healthy diet buys is more years in the nursing home. I say: live like crap and you may wind up in the nursing home before your time. I'm talking about securing more years OUT of the nursing home. And better years at that.

In any case, with kids, who don't know better, I think we should always encourage them to eat as well as possible. They're growing and developing and they need extra nutrients. They're also forming habits that will last a lifetime. Sure, poptarts are all-American and we all ate them and turned out fine. But "eat your peas" is also all-American and probably had more to do with WHY we turned out fine.

are you going to tell me that secular 'enlightened' adults aren't often as prissy and sanctimonious about their consumption habits (and a million other things) as any fundie?

Well, you'd be surprised to see it from the other side of the aisle. I dated a vegan for a while and she got shat upon by everyone. Just the mere fact that she chose not to eat animal products was seen as an insult by omnivores, who took it as some kind of gesture of superiority on her part. She *never* proselytized or postured but anytime it became necessary to reveal her diet (like at a potluck) she'd get cornered and given the third degree, forced to defend her choice. I think omnivores can be just as sanctimonious as the prissy vegetarians which, I agree, are definitely out there.