It's the fluoride in the water. That and I think a few of them actually have ants in their pants.

They've got no respect for their elders.

And they won't give me any lip.

I blame Steve Jobs.

It's the rap music. All "humina-humina" this, and "humina-humina" that. We had melody with our music, dang it. And lyrics, too! That you could understand!!!

Twinkies, Tang, and Oscar Meyer hot dogs are strangely missing from their diets.

I wish I were an Oscar Mayer weiner (probably because my total body fat percentage would go DOWN).

Hopped up on goofballs.

Too much damn sugar. And too many parents eager to give everything they wanted, failing to realize that they were better off for wanting some things and being unable to get them.

er wait, was this a serious thread?

In all seriousness, do kids just seem generally meaner these days? Or am I just getting old?

Perhaps "meaner" isn't the right word. They seem more hardened, less innocent and a little nastier.

Too much corn syrup and not enough real sugar. No more Sugar Smacks, or Sugar Pops, or Super Sugar Crisp, or Sugar Frosted Flakes...

We market to tweens and younger for fashion, cell phones, movies, shoes, brand name school supplies, etc. So, I would not be surprised if they are harder and more cynical than in the past.

Whenever I run across people who think of kids as basically little angels, I don't know whether they were incredibly sheltered or have simply forgotten the intensity of emotion and complete dearth of perspective that comes with childhood. I mean, I dimly remember being absolutely furious, on a scale which it would take something incredible to produce now, over relatively insignificant things. The number of years it takes to lose that varies, and is maybe getting higher since we are becoming more and more adept at lengthening childhood and adolescence. I do know that the only time I've ever come close to serious harm at the direct hands of another, it was a teen with a rather vicious knife. And not over much. Adults can be evil and selfish, but they generally have a sense of perspective.

Now that's not addressing anybody getting worse. Are they harder, "meaner"? Dunno. I am suspicious of this perspective, since it seems to have been a rallying cry of countless generations past, and by that token... WE should be downright satanic serial murdering dogfuckers. And I'm just not into the whole satan thing.

What prompted this, interro?

I just thought it would be fun to talk about. I wasn't serious, but if people want to talk about it seriously, go ahead.

Now that's not addressing anybody getting worse. Are they harder, "meaner"? Dunno. I am suspicious of this perspective, since it seems to have been a rallying cry of countless generations past

Yeah, I'm hoping it's just because I'm getting older that it seems that way. And I do remember the dangerous and emotional outbursts that come with being young. But sometimes I catch a hint of some sort of emotional hardness in young children that I don't remember, in the way they talk to each other, they way they fight, they way they interact with their parents, and it makes me wonder.

Mostly, they are just the same as we were at that age, but now we are old so feel bound to act like our parents did. I think, though, that kids were never so badly behaved in general when I was a kid.

dreamsign and LeeJay, I think there is some inherent hardness in young people today - almost like they never had any innocence to lose. Just a sign of the times, perhaps, but sad nonetheless.

Well, my grade school now has metal grates on all the windows. The neighbourhood mall has been demolished to make way for a city of big box stores. Parents (and adults in general) seem to be angrier in general, and you know how disposition leaches through to kids. And, well, violence breeds hardness like nothing I know. Personal violence especially, but witnessed, participatory, all of it. And if there aren't more wars going on in the world right now (80?) than there were when I was a kid, I sure as hell am more aware of them, as most people are, I think, kids included. Our exposure to suffering, generally, has certainly increased, and people get burned out when they witness suffering that they can't do anything about, especially if nobody else seems to be doing anything, either.

It's the rap music. All "humina-humina" this, and "humina-humina" that.

What's "humina?" Sounds like a cross between compost and cat food.

Yeah, the "information age" may turn out to be not such a blessing after all. Freedom of information is fine but, for growing psyches, freedom from information may be better. I don't think there is any more violence in the world today than when I was growing up, but it was way below my radar at the time.

Sounds like a cross between compost and cat food.
No, that's Hummous.

well, here you don't have to worry about too much info. There's no war on the news every night like when i was a kid, there's no upheaval in the streets, no criminal investigations being endlessly reported--only missing white girls and shark attacks and celeb gossip pretty much. And with cable tv, you're not stuck with just 5 channels to watch--and video games and internet...

I almost never interact with kids at all, so I have no idea what's wrong with them.

And, since I don't have a television, I don't even get to see what the media think is wrong with them. I know two kids, 13 and 15, or something like that, and they're the children of my girlfriend's best friend.

They're little adorable nerdy guys, and I like hanging out with them, since I get to play video games with them and watch--amazingly!--perfectly innocent flash animations online that they think are "gross".

These cartoons are totally not "gross", unless you think that a pixellated still of Mario standing behind the Princess is really racy. That's the kind of thing that sends them into nervous giggles.

They're really into The Matrix (which is one of the stupidest, laziest movies of all time), but they aren't going to kill anyone, and they like me, so I'm not going to tell them that I hate The Matrix.

Plus, I was them when I was their age.

amberglow, did you get my postcard?

postcard?

You mean these guys? No, they're alright.

Ah, the running fungus. I see that you are a trader of distinction.

Postcard sent through the mefimailswap. It didn't come?

I got a couple extra addresses from Jessamyn because I didn't want to send just one.

oh, i did get it!!! i loved it! it's on my fridge as i type! : >

i didn't know that was you! thank you!!!!

i still have to send mine.

*whew*

Ok, now that's it. The bile has really gone out of this thread.

My 13 year old niece is coming out to visit for a week tomorrow. I hear that she's in that world- weary, it's all too too boring phase. God help me.

show her knifebutt--that'll snap her out of it quick.

(really, don't tho)

I blame the parents.

Whenever I run across people who think of kids as basically little angels, I don't know whether they were incredibly sheltered or have simply forgotten the intensity of emotion and complete dearth of perspective that comes with childhood.

I was a little angel. Seriously. The kindest sweetest shyest littelest thing. Then I became a teenager, and every bit of sweet went sour. ;)

Adults are overly concerned about "bursting their self esteem bubbles." (The Husband is a teacher, this is a real term in his school system, and yes the kids are aware of it and use it.)

Most kids are fine. My kids & their friends are all okay. People worry too much. The saddest thing to me about modern childhood is the insane OVER-involvement of the parents. There are tons of kids whose every single moment is scheduled. Their terrified mothers won't let them out of the house in case they get abducted! So they sit inside & play video games. And nobody seems to care what they watch on TV; after all, there's one in every room and they're never turned off. I let my kids grow up the way I did, out of the house, running around the neighborhood, able to walk to the store & buy firecrackers; I taught them how to use public transportation by the time they were 12. They weren't allowed to watch scary movies & we never had cable TV. They're growing up fine. Well most of the time. ;-)

It's the low-slung pants.

the kids are just fine ... it's the adults i'm worried about

seems like we're begging the question, somewhat. and by "we", i mean, "you". but i think i know what you're getting at. ;)

- different shared cultural experiences, etc ensures that every generation will differ significantly from subsequent and previous ones... each sharing unique languages, values, and norms while looking at other generations and thinking "wtf?"

- parents are too busy engaged in the rat race to, you know, actually raise their kids. sometimes this is an unfortunate function of poor economic conditions, but... not usually. spending most of their childhoods institutionalized will help ensure that they don't get the sufficient individual attention and affection vital for learning, growing, and developing a positive sense of well-being.

- parents signing their kids up for the rat race; and at earlier and earlier ages.. will help make little Kailee and little Hunter grow up to be sociopaths just like their yuppie/yuppie-wannabe parents... if they're not already too burned out/depressed/anxious/stressed out by age 18.

- imho, children are better off in a loving two parent household (either gay or straight) vs a loving single parent household... and the ~recent trend seems to be that single parent households and unloving two parent households are more prevalent.

- hormones in beef, chicken, etc are turning children into little mutant freaks.
developing brains are not immune to the effects of these (legal and illegal) hormones additives. btw a common misconception is that sugar causes hyperactivity. it doesn't.

- television

on preview: pretty much what pyramid termite said.

Parents are what's wrong with kids.

minor edit: subpoint re: children's rat race from my comment above= children need more unstructured playtime, rather than a daily schedule chock full of yuppie bullshit. i'm all about unstructured playtime. (and a some socratic guidance as needed, obviously.)

also, wtf is this shit.